Three Redskins-Related Debates
With the second and third picks in the 2000 NFL Draft, the Redskins selected LaVar Arrington and Chris Samuels, respectively. The two combined for nine Pro Bowl selections, and for Samuels, this season marked the tenth that began with him as the team's starting left tackle.
By sheer coincidence, the two are also pretty much at the center of two internet discussions from today.
The first is straightforward: as the decade comes to a close, Yahoo! Sports' Shutdown Corner blog put up their list of the decade's top ten draft busts, and Arrington comes in at number 7, just behind his college teammate Courtney Brown.
Two Penn State defenders went with top two picks in the first draft of the decade. Neither have played in the league since 2006I have trouble classifying Arrington as a draft bust. He may not have become the ultra-megastar we were all envisioning when he was drafted, but he was a Pro Bowler, a strong contributor, and a presence on the field. He's been out of the league since 2006 because of injury, so that hardly seems like a fair knock.
The other debate is a bit more complicated, but also a bit more interesting.
Over at ExtremeSkins, a poster named The-Rock asks a question that seems easy to answer: "Is drafting linemen early necessary?" The answer really does seem obvious. All season, we've heard how the team has neglected the offensive line in the draft, how the only sensible decision next year is to take an offensive tackle, even if Samuels recovers from the injury that ended this season.
But The-Rock looks at a few of the successful, well-regarded teams this season -- the Ravens, Patriots, Steelers, Colts, Saints, Vikings, and Eagles, as well as the much-maligned Redskins -- and where they've drafted offensive linemen over the last five years. The results are ... not what I expected, to say the least.
You have to see the actual numbers and names to really appreciate the breakdown, but of the 30 O-linemen drafted by those teams in rounds 1-4 over the last five years, there are just four first rounders. Nine of the players are second-rounders.
The numbers are far from conclusive, but they make the argument about how to use next year's first-round pick -- likely to be a fairly high selection -- much, much more interesting to me. (My decision to start up the Draft Russell Okung Campaign, for example, has been put on hold for the moment.)
I'm interested to hear what other people think after perusing the numbers, though.
There's a third debate, or the start of one, but it has nothing to do with franchise left tackles or draft busts: Awful Announcing is projecting the December 27th Cowboys at Redskins game as the only Sunday Night game with a chance of being flexed out of primetime. AA thinks that Cowboys/Redskins is probably a big enough draw even though the Skins are having a down year; I tend to think that either Baltimore/Pittsburgh or Jets/Colts would be a likely switch.
Either way, we'll find out in about a week about that one. The draft-an-offensive-lineman debate ... that's going to go on for a while longer.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
11-30-2009 @ 10:16PM
fatpickle said...
I disagree w/ the Top 10 draft busts also. Arrington was not a bust and 3 out of the top 5 on the list are still playing.
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12-01-2009 @ 7:16AM
Bill said...
i'd like the skins to trade back out of the too early 1rd pick and pick up a later 1 and possibly a 2 or somer multiple of picks to use for O-Line, secondary, rb, and lb....
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12-01-2009 @ 8:23AM
Eric B said...
so, i know it's a little off topic, but given the dismantling of the pats the saints did last night...
predictions about this sunday's game?
i have a feeling it's going to be ugly...in an epic fashion.
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12-01-2009 @ 9:10AM
kvn375 said...
just like the broncos came in and wiped up a team with no chance right? thats why the cowboys and eagles came in and absolutely killed us right? thats why they play the games....sure on paper now it might look bad but a team coming off a huge win on monday night against ESPNS team may overlook the skins a little, the same way i feel a couple other teams have the last few weeks.....my prediction same for this week is just like my golf game, 1 or 2 good shots to keep me coming back next week but nothing to write home about....but i dont think it will be a blow out
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12-01-2009 @ 1:48PM
Eric B said...
i disagree...i don't think the saints will overlook the redskins at all, and i think it will actually be a little bit personal for them.
why? their defensive coordinator, gregg williams.
12-01-2009 @ 2:00PM
Mike said...
U have got to be off ur rocker. Our secondary is banged up and the Saints ain't no COWBOYS, EAGLES or BRONCOS. Saints are the 1st or 2nd best team in the league. and don't forget how we came back to beat them last year which was pretty embarrasing for them. I'm sure they are out for blood and want a perfect season. ummm... undefeated vs. a 3-8 team with no offense. this ain't L.A. but u r in LaLa land my friend. My prediction... Saints 34 Skins 6... put it on the board! lol
12-01-2009 @ 2:59PM
egirardin71 said...
Remember 2 years ago when the Patriots obliterated the Skins 52 - 7. This will likely be much worse then that. The Skins have very little offense and with Gregg Williams looking for revenge expect constant blitzing and pressure which JC can not handle. The Defense has given up more big plays this year then they have in the past 5 combined. The Saints unlike the Broncos who are way over rated are the real thing and will crush the Skins
12-01-2009 @ 10:52AM
punchdaclock said...
Wasn't it funny how fast the ESPN heads changed from Brady to Drew Brees.......
I don't think lavar was a bust, but he was a big, big disappointment. The hype never fit the player. He is still living off of that hype.
Oh yeah, I actually think that the Skins will win this week. We will see if I'm wrong, but judging by the last few weeks, I think we have a good chance. Take it to Vegas baby!!!!
later
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12-01-2009 @ 11:15AM
rufwork said...
The 1st versus 2nd round o-liners argument is flawed. The question isn't how many starters were drafted in each round, but the *percentage* of o-liners drafted in each round that go on to become regular starters.
I'm betting other positions -- QB, d-line, WR -- have a higher first-round than second-round selection percentage , which could easily explain the skew.
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12-03-2009 @ 5:42PM
kevo456 said...
No way arrington deserves to be on that list. Now he never lived up to the hype. But when he played he was a monster. If he just could of played the way G.Williams wanted him to, he would still be a redskin.
As for our draft coming up. I think we have to try and get Jimmy Clausen, and get whatever we can get for J. Campbell. Jimmy Clausen has a rocket arm and will be a great pro. Im a supporter of Campbell, but i think he is scarred as a redskin, mostly thanks to how he was handled and how we never believed in him enough to get him protection. Wherever else he goes hes going to be a starter and do well.
This upcoming draft is filled with Offensive Lineman, well have no problem picking any good starters. We also should look for another MLB, fletcher is getting up there in age, and a rookie would have the best tutor out there.
Dont be crazy suprised if we look into getting Greg Williams back. He is having great success with the Saints. And I really think he would come back for the right price. His son goes to school in the DC area, and he is still loved here.
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12-01-2009 @ 2:00PM
keithamcgregor said...
Lavar Arrington is just another example of the Bad Management Redskin fans have had to put up with under Snyder. Arrington was made to ride the pine to settle the managements vendetta against him. He was a pro bowl player who was blamed for not being able to adapt to Gregg Williams system. Players like Arrington and Haynesworth who plays for the Redskins now are the kind of players you just let go and make plays. Its like how the Skins have mishandled Campbell. They put the kid in a system that plays against his strengths and the place him behind one of the most neglected Olines in the league for the last few seasons. On top of that you give him average recievers and expect him to win the Superbowl. No wonder this teams management is the joke of the league.
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12-01-2009 @ 3:21PM
cdmessickbba said...
I would trade back, pick up extra picks, then if we can pick up 2 1st, use one on Lineman, and another on a running back. Here's my reason. Look at Carolina, Campbell is much better than Delame. They are still able to run the ball because they have great o-line, but also because they have 2 1st round picks at running back that split time. Their contracts are staggered so that if one comes up for extension, they can let him go and know they still have someone who will be effective (like Davis was let go) This would extend Portis a few years when they could draft another 1st rounder to replace him. Sign Jones, he'd be a decent back up even if our proBowler came back from injury, plus he could be used at another position as well. Then draft an O-Line guy, any guy, and place him on the line. That way, you have depth, youth, and a power run game. This help QB, which should be extended on a 3 year contract like Derek Anderson was. Browns paid a decent price to see if he would be successful. Keep Brennan for the controversy factor. And spend the rest of the picks on an assortment of other positions.
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12-01-2009 @ 8:52PM
keithamcgregor said...
First of all I think we all agree Vinny needs to go. Then the new GM can hopefully trade down in the first round and pick up some extra picks. Moving to the middle of the first round would net the Skins an extra second rounder. In order to pick up another second rounder and a seventh I would unload Cooley. That would give the Skins 1 first rounder, 3 second rounders, 1 fourth rounder, 1 fifth rounder and 2 seventh rounders. Team needs 2 Starting Tackles, 1 Starting Guard and 1 Starting RB. That leaves four picks to fill in other holes. Strong Side Linebacker if Orackpo moves to the line. A DE to fill the hole left by Jarmnon getting hurt.(assuming it takes into next season for a full recovery). CB and Safety help would probably round it out. I also would move Santana Moss to the slot and run him across the middle like Wes Welker and I would leave Kelly and Thomas on the outside. Let the rebuild begin and in two or three drafts they can turn this thing around.
12-01-2009 @ 4:09PM
kbourgault2000 said...
Arrington is not a bust. He would still be playing at a high level if he hadn't gotten injured. About the possible primetime switch, I think it is good to put more competetive games with playoff implications on but, the steelers have had so many primetime games over the last 2 years that it's sickening. I'm so sick of having to watch them week in and week out. You would think the NFL would want to show off some of the other talented teams in the league, and everybody can see that there are a good amount of teams that are putting a better product on the field than the steelers are. Put somebody else on please!!!!
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12-01-2009 @ 5:50PM
ronaldb1206 said...
if anybody in the redskins nation say that arrington was a bust ima ask you for your adress so i can punch it up in my Garmin come to your house knock on the door and call you a LIAR!!!! straight to your face..... because every time arrington took the field and dove over offensive linemen and made plays in the backfield the whole world went bannanas regardless if he was uncoachable or disobedient to the scheme Lavar was the defensive playmaker(before sean taylor arrived..R.I.P 21) and besides he single handedly took aikman out of the league by delivering the ultimate concussion blow to him,and when you destroy a cowboy you would never be considered a bust in the eyes of redskins nation....but chris samuels thats another story, i gotta be honest i dont know how he made it to the probowl multiple times...thats like sending carlos rodgers to the probowl....it should never happen.
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12-01-2009 @ 11:10PM
David said...
Saints-Redskins prediction ...
Yes, the Saints are a *far* better team and the Redskins have no business being on the same field with them. But ...
The Saints are coming off a short week, after an emotional game, and traveling to Washington. These are the conditions under which a great team loses to a bad team.
PREDICTION: Saints move the ball but keep settling for field goals. Skins win 24-23.
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12-01-2009 @ 11:20PM
Adam.welch2 said...
Sign Charlie Weis as the new Head Coach, one stipulation, he doesn't get to touch the defense. Jerry Gray gets promoted to defensive coordinator.
Pick up a FA Guard and Center
Round one - Draft Jimmy Claussen, QB Notre Dame
Round two- Draft Sam Young, OT, Notre Dame
Round two (from Chicago, through Denver for LaRon Landry)- Draft Adam Ulatoski, OT, Texas
Round four- Draft Josh Bynes, MLB, Auburn
Round five- Draft Stephon Johnson, RB, USC
Round Five (from Denver for LaRon Landry)- Maurice Pouncey, C, Florida
Round Six- Antonio Baker, SS, Lousiana Tech
Round Seven- JaMarcus Webb, OT, Texas
There it is Vinny, you can thank me later, just do it and upgrade me to dream seats.
Peace!
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12-02-2009 @ 1:27PM
Justin Samson said...
Honestly, I miss LaVar Arrington and he really shouldn't of moved on to the New York Giants where his career basically dropped. The management practically insulted Arrington and they never got along or on the same page. Which is also another reason why Greg Williams was let go. Upper management has their head shoved up there a$$ in regards to big ego's and thirst for complete authority.
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12-07-2009 @ 4:09PM
rik said...
the only logical response is that it depends on your needs at the time vis a vis the available talent at the time. first, i agree that Arrington is not a draft bust. sure there was tension with the management and coaches, but a pro-bowler in the NFL is never a bust.
regarding the draft, take it in context with this week's loss to the Saints. a loss is a loss, but this year injuries have actually been an unexpected blessing, in that our backup guys are getting time on the field to show their wares. and the verdict is that, despite the record, this team has a lot of potential and talent. even our much maligned QB Campbell posted some solid numbers and looked comfortable going long. we already know our defense is good; and behind the ball we already have Cooley, Davis, Moss, Randle El, Thomas, Portis, Cartwright, Betts, Ganther, and Sellers (among a few others), all of whom are capable of making plays. Neither Campbell nor Collins is a pro-bowl-calibre QB, but each can make a play given the basics: protection.
so, where do we need the work? as much as i love having Haynesworth on our D-line, it was a mistake to pay 100 mill. for a single guy when a 10 mill. contract for each of 10 fresh young Hogs would be a good deal for everyone. the ones who pan out get bigger, better, longer deals. but we need to draft young, strong linemen. period. Skins Glory has always been won in the scrum.
all you need is 3-4 yards a play to march the ball down the field. a good O-Line--with enough depth to rest guys who need it--will get you the first 1-2 yds consistently; each of our ball handlers is capable of pushing it to the chains after that. focus on drafting the line. pick up an up-and-coming star if/when there's an opportunity, but focus on the line first.
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